I agree with your conclusion. I recently purchased an LG HGTV and home theater combo. Together they have about 50 pages of instructions - all out of context and two separate remotes that each work both devices - sort of. I have a masters degree in EE and am a registered P.E. and I am having trouble getting all of this stuff to work together. w

I also agree with your conclusion. It seems Joe average has a hard time setting up a home theatre system; too many cables, too many settings in the equipment menus to allow the consumer to get confused and subsequently get sub-optimum results. I have helped two friends adjust Home Thetre systems they had owned for several years, neither had any idea that their systems were set up incorrectly. A third friend has some obvious errors in their system but cannot be bothered to get it fixed (he does not realize he needs to use digital audio outputs to get Dobly Digital to get true surround sound), "too complicated" he says! He is "almost happy" because it "almost works".

You are right on! I do believe the problem is with the manufacturers, who seem to have people intimately familiar with the set-up needs write the instructions, which are NOT checked out by a neophyte. Furthermore, many instructions are obviously written in a non-English speaking country and can be confusing for that reason. A lot of problems could be resolved if they would just have 2 or 3 employees, working independently, set up the system with the instuction and not be given any additional information and not be allowed to converse with others on the set-up.

You are right on! I do believe the problem is with the manufacturers, who seem to have people intimately familiar with the set-up needs write the instructions, which are NOT checked out by a neophyte. Furthermore, many instructions are obviously written in a non-English speaking country and can be confusing for that reason. A lot of problems could be resolved if they would just have 2 or 3 employees, working independently, set up the system with the instuction and not be given any additional information and not be allowed to converse with others on the set-up.

If you can't take the heat...
Just like any other consumer purchase, such as a chain saw, a sports car, or a cell phone. Why would you buy something unless you need it? If you buy something that is complex, you better be able to handle that complexity. The "average Joe" should try to buy only what he needs instead of getting something fancy and thinking it's automatically going to make his life simpler. And that's not a license for poor designs - that is a real problem. But some things are just complicated and you should think about what you're getting yourself into before you spend money.

I am inclined to agree, but sometimes the Manufactures are on the crest of the Technology curve; My wife asks our daughter how to use certain functions on her new cell phone. The kids know how, but sometimes adults (the average Joe) are "new technology" challenged.

I have a Casio watch Telememo 30, 3 timers etc etc -- I can not set it's analog time when I travel , because it requires a Ph.D to work through the multifunction menu and button options - I hate it

When there were only a few things to remember I felt like taking the time to learn arcane procedures to make consumer
items work. But when so many devices clutter our modern world that require special non-obvious steps to operate, I give up. Good instructions help alot, but these don't usually come with the device. Many consumer items aren't expected to last more than 3 years, but the new one to replace it will have a completely new set of instructions. Yikes! Now that the manufacturers are starting to feel the heat with lost revenue, the problem will get needed attention--but it will take a while to fix this. I also hate geting those big multilanguage instruction sheets that don't really have that many useful instructions in them.

It's the manufacturers, not the consumers. I recently bought, and subsequently returned, a Belkin USB WiFi adapter. What could be more simple? Install the software, plug in the device, see the network and voila, you're connected, right? Wrong. After downloading new drivers, etc, etc, I returned it for my money back. I'm sure this device was NTF, but it was NFW for me.

I guess Microsoft has got it made. you just need that little policy that says if you take the shrink wrapper off, it's yours....No matter what kind of junk or lack of instruction is inside the box.

I have taken many motherboards back to Fry's because they won't let you see the manual before you buy it and the on line document from the maker may only be a spec sheet; and you don't know if you can get it to work until it does.

My wife is upset that every new cell phone, even from the same manufacturer has a different menu structure; same with digital cameras..
And whay can't the industry agree on a 'standard' remote control..

It just goes on and on.....I guess my wife is right....all this technology must be from the devil!! heh!!

User interface should be a mandatory subject to be taught in engineering school. Most engineers cannot think from a user's prospective.

Are they bleating and expecting us to pay more ? Lets face it - Consumer electronics is a market flooded with products that nobody actually needs,
bought without seeing or trying, with money people haven't got.
We have to buy with upon scant information and untrustworthy "reviews"
Manufacturers and sales people deliberately obfuscate their products shortcomings. Products are increasingly designed on a shoe string, impossible to maintain and made as a throw away
so its no surprise that modern impatient, "quick fix" consumers reject the rubbish served up with expensive brand labels on.
Customer support can easily claim "user error" and say "RTFM" - read the manuals
I say "PFU" ...........poor user
In reality we put up with too much and shold send more of the junk back

Oh now, that's smart... let's call our customers Stupid. That should make them want to buy more of our products. The blame here rests squarely on the shoulders of management at these companies for hiring marketing staff that does not understand their market, not on the customer. Let the folks on your production floor try the product, they're more representative of your customer base than the 28 year old MBA right out of school. Oh, that's right, you don't have a production floor any more. Never mind, I understand now, you're right, the customer is stupid.

It's both sides of the party that has issues... True the companies can do a better job at providing information in an understandable format, but the customer must also put forth some effort to learn also. People are naturally lazy and don't put out the effort to learn somthing new. I have just mounted, wired, and setup a Viso TV... Without problems, using the provided instructions which I found very useful. But I had to sit down and really read the information provided. Unfortunantly I can't say that all the projects I attempted have gone as well.

Decades ago there were these things called "TV shop" and "stereo shop" all over the USA. You went in there and a real human helped you pick out what was right for you. Then they delivered the TV to you and set it up for you. They adjusted the antenna and the colour and showed you how to use the remote. There was never a problem with 'hard to understand instructions'.

It is the consumer's fault for buying stuff that is sealed in plastic bulletproof packaging that they cannot try out before they bring it home. Or buying 'off the internet' without trying it first.

Hmm... if you make returning a purchased item simple with no (aka limited) explanation required, and the consumers take adavantage of this option, who is stupid?

I'm one of those Stupid Consumers> Just bought a Cannon 8800F scanner. When I could not figure out how to caption photos, I called Canon. "Sorry, you'll have to contact the mfg. of the bundled software." Two application were included; one from ArcSoft, one from Adobe. Both told me that they do not provide Tech support unless I upgrade to the full version. Frustrated that I bought a product that I could not use, I returned it. I do not consider myself to be a novice computer user. Want to hear more about Seagate and Symantec.... call me.

I'm one of those Stupid Consumers> Just bought a Cannon 8800F scanner. When I could not figure out how to caption photos, I called Canon. "Sorry, you'll have to contact the mfg. of the bundled software." Two application were included; one from ArcSoft, one from Adobe. Both told me that they do not provide Tech support unless I upgrade to the full version. Frustrated that I bought a product that I could not use, I returned it. I do not consider myself to be a novice computer user. Want to hear more about Seagate and Symantec.... call me.

To be self correcting, a loop needs feedback. The Heathkit folks of long ago quickly learned that if they were not to be a lightning rod for customer support, they needed to trot the manual past know-nothing people. Only when they could assemble a kit with relative ease was a manual released. Today, you're in luck if the person who wrote the manual has English as his first language.

Not only are the manuals written by other-than-English-speaking people hard to read, but often you have bought the thing, read the manually thoroughly, tried the recommended settings only to find you still have a "you can't get there from here" issue of the thing not doing what the available literature led you to believe it could do.

Another problem is that knowledgeable sales people are as lacking as low gas prices in those stores that have any sort of support. Geek Squad, for example, has a very limited scope of what they understand and can help with.

If I can't understand how a product goes together and how it fits my needs from looking at the box I don't buy it. Once bought if the device is not intuitive I take it back. I don't have time to read a book or take some kind of computer course every time I buy something. There are so many functions on cell phones, etc that I don't currently have any reason to use that it doesn't make any sense most of the time to buy the product that has everything. If a manufacturer wants me to buy something they need their ads and instructions to be concise and descriptive.

Consumers are STUPID ! They Blame others for everything nowdays. Many consumers have no business buying complicated electronics and are either too dumb or lazy to learn how to use the stuff. When they do HARD crossword puzzles, I guess they want the answers to be easier.

Once upon a time I bought a 486 mother board from Fry's. The instructions was so poorly written, I couldn't figure out how to make it work. So I returned it.
A few weeks later I saw the same boards at Fry's with a cheat sheet on how to set up the switches. Why bother selling something which is going to be returned? Take the time to make it usable, the hidden costs of poor design can be expensive.

I recently bought my wife a Canon camera. It's excellent, but the 180 page manual is only on a CD. It's impossible to get a hard copy in Europe, but I understand that in Canada, both french and english manuals are shipped - half must be wasted.
At the other end of the scale, I bought a simple Wifi card which automatically installs in 5 minutes, but has a manual an inch thick in multiple languages.
There has to be a happy medium!

I recently bought my wife a Canon camera. It's excellent, but the 180 page manual is only on a CD. It's impossible to get a hard copy in Europe, but I understand that in Canada, both french and english manuals are shipped - half must be wasted.
At the other end of the scale, I bought a simple Wifi card which automatically installs in 5 minutes, but has a manual an inch thick in multiple languages.
There has to be a happy medium!

I remember Heathkit trying all their assembly instructions on lay people, like housewives, who had never assembled a kit before. Only if they could do it from the instructions and without additional information, those instructions were released to the public. That approach should still be done with modern equipment.

Recently was given a new cell phone. Like my old one, it has a fat pamphlet, about 130 pages in English, ditto Spanish. No table of contents / index, no page numbers. 15 pages on buying airtime, and NONE on where they hid the submenus & sub-submenus. Still can't find a way to show both cell & home phones for one person except by entering EVERYTHING from scratch for each. 12 pages on camera function, but fails to mention that to retain images requires a "hidden" step. Has USB port, no cable, no mention in booklet, and doesn't say whether downloading can be done (they DO show how to send to another phone, paying triple airtime!). Home charger only, none for car. I'm quite impressed - just not favorably.

Whether software or hardware, whatever is purchased is the most important thing in your life. That seems to be the manufacturer's point of view. Because you have purchased the most amazing thing ever, you will obviously read and study every syllable of the manual. I don't have time for that sh*t! If I cannot master "it" without looking at the manual it goes back. Whether consumer products or engineering tools, the sole consideration is profit at the insistence of greed. If Marketing can sell "it" with little regard to usability, investment into usability would only eat into the profits. Convincing people they are morons is cheaper than proper support.